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General Category => Geek / Games Discussion => Topic started by: KT 💣 KλBoƠM on March 12, 2024, 07:23:24 pm
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I can't see myself ever being able to afford a new car ... much less an electric car which of course would be new. But reading over the last year about all the issues and broken promises .. made me want to start this thread and I invite you guys to post to it as well.
(https://empire-s3-production.bobvila.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/iStock-1372085619-hidden-costs-of-owning-an-electric-car-vehicle-charging-by-solar-panels.jpg)
Electric cars have up to a third less range than advertised in real-life conditions, investigation finds
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/electric-cars-have-up-to-a-third-less-range-than-advertised-in-real-life-conditions-investigation-finds/ar-BB1jJhPU (https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/electric-cars-have-up-to-a-third-less-range-than-advertised-in-real-life-conditions-investigation-finds/ar-BB1jJhPU)
The battery life of the cars tested was on average 29.9% less than advertised
11 Hidden Costs of Owning an Electric Car
https://www.bobvila.com/articles/hidden-costs-of-owning-an-electric-car/
1. Higher Purchase Price (Don't think that one is so hidden)
2. Registration Fees
3. Insurance Premiums
4. Road Charging
5. Home Charging
6. Battery Replacement
7. Depreciation
8. Range Loss
9. Repair Bills (especially since you can't fix it in your own garage)
10. Charging Time
11. Add-ons
12. (not listed but I would add future HACKING)
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I just want to put in my 2 cents here. With our current technology, EV's are not the way to go for everyone. On the best of days, EV's have 1/4 to 1/3rd the range of a gas powered car and require specialized charging. And it gets even worse during extreme temperature climates. Those who live in inner city housing or apartments won't have at home access to charging. The cost to own and maintain them is noticeably higher compared to regular cars. And just like cell phones and laptops, battery life is limited. The more you charge and discharge them, the shorter the battery life gets. That battery pack costs about half of the value of the car when it's brand new.
On the pro side, they do provide instant power on demand, can run almost completely silent and won't produce any harmful emissions during normal operation. Those few who have outfitted their homes with solar and have fast charging at home can use their vehicles as additional emergency power.
And one more thing that's both a pro and a con. Pro: Instant heat and cooling year round. Con: Shorter range because of instant heat and cooling.
But I think the biggest argument to owning an EV is pollution reduction. Here are the facts. EV's don't produce any emissions during normal operation. That is true. But emissions are produced when charging them. Think about this. Solar, wind and hydro make up a very small percentage of total energy production. And the process of making just one of those batteries that power EV's produces as much pollution as letting a diesel engine idle for a year straight.
If you want the best of both worlds. Go with a gasoline / electric hybrid.
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I just want to put in my 2 cents here. With our current technology, EV's are not the way to go for everyone. On the best of days, EV's have 1/4 to 1/3rd the range of a gas powered car and require specialized charging. And it gets even worse during extreme temperature climates. Those who live in inner city housing or apartments won't have at home access to charging.
They would have to first put in charging stations in all apartment and duplex parking lots as well as on all parking spots on street parking. As far as I have seen the only charging stations I have seen to date are max 5 at the hospital and government building parking lots.Also they are not near the front so anyone having an Electric Vehicle with Handicap parking requirements .. have not been thought of.
The cost to own and maintain them is noticeably higher compared to regular cars. And just like cell phones and laptops, battery life is limited. The more you charge and discharge them, the shorter the battery life gets. That battery pack costs about half of the value of the car when it's brand new.
Another negative for those who live in major cities were commutes are shorter, times at street lights longer, and traffic slow.
On the pro side, they do provide instant power on demand, can run almost completely silent and won't produce any harmful emissions during normal operation. Those few who have outfitted their homes with solar and have fast charging at home can use their vehicles as additional emergency power.
True but isn't that how it always is? The rich have no problem with the latest developments but the poor are left in the dust yet pushed forward anyway and not listened to and told to just use public transportation instead no matter how slow, packed and late it can be.
And one more thing that's both a pro and a con. Pro: Instant heat and cooling year round. Con: Shorter range because of instant heat and cooling.
I never thought about that. Care to expand on that?
But I think the biggest argument to owning an EV is pollution reduction. Here are the facts. EV's don't produce any emissions during normal operation. That is true. But emissions are produced when charging them. Think about this. Solar, wind and hydro make up a very small percentage of total energy production. And the process of making just one of those batteries that power EV's produces as much pollution as letting a diesel engine idle for a year straight.
Oh ya I forgot about that but I did remember hearing locally how just to MAKE the batteries is proving to produce MORE emissions than driving gas vehicles as it is. Interesting how they have down played that though once people started bringing that up. Another thing is that they are saying that they are finding it so expensive and are already running into a problem with having ENOUGH batteries for the demand how how many Electric Vehicles will be required if the gas vehicle ban will go through by 2025 2035. They extended the ban year because of this major fact at least for Canada.
If you want the best of both worlds. Go with a gasoline / electric hybrid.
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And one more thing that's both a pro and a con. Pro: Instant heat and cooling year round. Con: Shorter range because of instant heat and cooling.
I never thought about that. Care to expand on that?
Absolutely. The battery packs in fully electric cars can pack up to 600 volts. And the design of them is to get as much power out of them as possible. But in order to do this, they have to be cooled with an antifreeze coolant and pumped through a heat exchanger. Like a radiator essentially. And in cold climates, they need to be heated to keep the full power of the batteries available. Extreme heat and cold will restrict / limit full power delivery and shorten battery life. So, these cars are equipped with electric heating and cooling systems. And temperature sensors in the battery pack will activate either system to maintain the temperature of the batteries. Thus drain the battery if it's not on a charger. Does that make sense?
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And one more thing that's both a pro and a con. Pro: Instant heat and cooling year round. Con: Shorter range because of instant heat and cooling.
I never thought about that. Care to expand on that?
Absolutely. The battery packs in fully electric cars can pack up to 600 volts. And the design of them is to get as much power out of them as possible. But in order to do this, they have to be cooled with an antifreeze coolant and pumped through a heat exchanger. Like a radiator essentially. And in cold climates, they need to be heated to keep the full power of the batteries available. Extreme heat and cold will restrict / limit full power delivery and shorten battery life. So, these cars are equipped with electric heating and cooling systems. And temperature sensors in the battery pack will activate either system to maintain the temperature of the batteries. Thus drain the battery if it's not on a charger. Does that make sense?
Completely! Thanks for that! I understand now! Also I can't imagine full EV working in upper areas of Canada and imagine it will either be a dual system (which won't save money so might as well stick with current gas cars) or full gas.
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I can't imagine full EV working in upper areas of Canada and imagine it will either be a dual system (which won't save money so might as well stick with current gas cars) or full gas.
That's why I was saying that gas / electric hybrids are the best of both worlds. But there is a catch to this as there are 2 types.
"Plug-in electric hybrid" which you can charge like a full EV but has a gas engine. In a lot of cases, this gas engine is just a on board generator. A range extender if you will. Where others, gas and electric can work together to boost overall horsepower.
"Conventional gasoline / electric hybrid" is a gas-powered car with electric assist. A much smaller battery is used in these cars. But it's main purpose is to help provide better fuel economy. And in cars like the Toyota Prius, that range assist is substantial.
But just like their fully electric counterparts, the plug-in hybrids also have the same electric heating and cooling systems. Where the regular hybrids have a much smaller battery and don't require the same level of temperature maintenance. They are usually just cooled by fans.
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My cousin Kevin decided to buy a new car (he has LOTS of money want wanted a powerful car which he figured electric would not be). He bought a 2023 Scatpack with a HEMI in all black. Reason being is he wanted to get a car that would last him a long time before everyone is forced to electric. He said this car won't be able to be bought later so he bought it now.
(https://dealerimages.dealereprocess.com/image/upload/c_limit,f_auto,fl_lossy,w_600/v1/svp/dep/23dodgechargerscatpack/dodge_23chargerscatpack_angularfront_pitchblackclearcoat)
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Dodge did mark the "end of the line" slated for 2023 for their hemi power train lineup. This would include any and all cars carrying the R/T and SRT badge with the 345ci (5.7L), 392ci (6.2L and 6.4L) and 426ci (7.0L) engine package. But are still being sold in 2024 as leftover stock. The SXT version powered by the Pentastar 3.6L V6 will still be available for a few more years.
Now the 392ci engine is a tricky one to pin down. Because the Hellcat and Demon shared the same 6.2L supercharged V8, but with a different is pulley size on the supercharger. Making around 700HP and 800HP respectively. Unless it's the Hellcat widebody. Then it has the Demon's bigger pulley. While the Scatpack came with the 6.4L naturally aspirated V8 rated at just over 500HP. At any rate, you don't buy one of these cars for its longevity. You buy one because they are crazy fast. And when you go fast, you break fast too. <--Words to remember. When you punish these cars, they will punish your wallet even harder. So, it's good that your cousin has lots of money because he's going to be spending lots of it maintaining that car.
Oh, and for the record, the Tesla plaid edition will blow the doors off of the Scatpack. AND, last quite a bit longer too. Some electric cars really are fast.
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I thought I took more pics but the only one that I have is the one with my mom and my cousin so I cropped it
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I knew it had to be the Superbee or the Datona. So yeah. That's the 6.4L, 392 CI naturally aspirated hemi V8. Makes around 500 BHP. I see 2 of them every week in my shop on average.
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I knew it had to be the Superbee or the Datona. So yeah. That's the 6.4L, 392 CI naturally aspirated hemi V8. Makes around 500 BHP. I see 2 of them every week in my shop on average.
So did my cuz make a good purchase that will last for years or should he have just went for an e-car? He wanted power.
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So did my cuz make a good purchase that will last for years or should he have just went for an e-car? He wanted power.
A lot of it really depends on the way he drives it. If he wants to drive it like a madman or as a daily driver, then it won't last very long. Fit & finish and overall build quality is not what I would consider good quality standards. That's just what I have been noticing with all American cars in general really. Quality is just not there. But if he takes very good care of it and drives it sparingly, hopefully he won't have many big problems with it.
To put it in a nutshell, your cuz wanted a muscle car to show off in. So that's what he got. It's intended to go fast while looking and sounding good doing it. In that respect, it will deliver smiles for miles. LOL. But it's not designed to last long before it needs extensive and expensive repairs.
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Well he has the money to waste living at home with his parents in his 50s (he is not a basement dweller lazy bum however and is only home when not working out west). He can afford repairs and is not one to drive like my brothers. He is more responsible at least. What he said he wanted was the hemi. He got the hemi. He worked hard for what he wanted so he got it finally.
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If performance was really the goal, electric cars do 0-60 mph in like 2.1 seconds. Nah he wanted a car that goes brrrr xD
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If performance was really the goal, electric cars do 0-60 mph in like 2.1 seconds. Nah he wanted a car that goes brrrr xD
Even though that charger has a 500+ BHP Hemi V8 in it, which is very impressive to begin with, it will get smoked by a fully electric Tesla Plaid. So yeah. He just wanted to hear the roar of American muscle. lol.
But check this. Borla performance makes an external audio system for these electric cars to give them the sound of an engine of their choosing.
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Tesla does it stock
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If performance was really the goal, electric cars do 0-60 mph in like 2.1 seconds. Nah he wanted a car that goes brrrr xD
Ya exactly! My cousin Kevin has the money. He can do what ever he wants with it and that is what he wanted. He isn't 85 like his dad. He wants to still have the powah :D
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Tesla does it stock
There is no sound system on them stock. It's an add-on.
Ya exactly! My cousin Kevin has the money. He can do what ever he wants with it and that is what he wanted. He isn't 85 like his dad. He wants to still have the powah :D
There is no denying the Hemi has power. And the sound they make is music to the ears.
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Tesla does it stock
There is no sound system on them stock. It's an add-on.
Oh maybe its a canadian thing. Here it's stock because people need to hear you come or whatever by law.
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Hey KT. Maybe this is what your cousin Kevin really wanted. >:D
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/LISrMGYVV7w
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Hey KT. Maybe this is what your cousin Kevin really wanted. >:D
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/LISrMGYVV7w
Heck him and my brothers both lol 😁
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Heck him and my brothers both lol 😁
Oh, I would too! But driving something like that makes well over 1,000 bhp, it also drinks fuel like mad.
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Oh, I would too! But driving something like that makes well over 1,000 bhp, it also drinks fuel like mad.
Even though my brothers cannot afford that, my cousin Kevin can.
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Even though my brothers cannot afford that, my cousin Kevin can.
If he ever decides to go that route and needs a co-pilot for a drag-n-drive, I'm in! lol
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Australia has been running into issues with how long it takes to charge some electric cars and limited charge stations:
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/topstories/why-many-australian-electric-vehicle-owners-are-getting-fed-up/ar-BB1pQb34
Right now Australia is in Winter so of course Charge times are slower but people are saying that guy was HOGGING the Charger even though it takes his car a long time to charge and charging there is free (unlike here in Canada. How is it there in the USA?)
How Temperature Affects Electric Vehicle Range | Consumer Reports
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZWoHfwWWuE
Charging sucks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8lMf2LDgbA
Yet they say slower charging is better than faster:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIh2a8CL7xQ
So they are suggested people buy themselves portal chargers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3_WFfOwIg8
Americans Refuse to Buy EV’s… Why?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt3hkv0ELvw
Inside the slow rollout of electric vehicle charging stations
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAZWgid2AMY
Here's Why You Should Run Your Battery Low On An Electric Car Road Trip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9kdvjrrb2s
How To Drive An Electric Car Efficiently!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8aI4en7Nmk
Dummy's Guide To EV Charging | Don't Make These Mistakes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNFalVTyrqk
my ELECTRIC CAR is now WORTHLESS EVen the dealership doesn't want it back
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77Yo4LpksWM
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As I've been saying all along. The number one thing is that there is nowhere near enough charging station infostructure to support plugin EV's to begin with. The range is poor, even on a good day. 250 miles or 400 kilometers max range is not good when it takes a super-fast charger over an hour to recharge. And a 220-volt home charger will take over 8 hours. Then factor in extreme heat or cold, it will cut that range nearly in half while almost doubling recharge time. And has no one given any thought of the demands it will put on our already overwhelmed electrical grid if even just one twentieth of a nation would adopt an EV?
The cost of these cars is still out of reach for the average household income levels. And I'm not talking statistically either. I'm talking realistically. There are millions of people out there that can't afford to buy a brand-new car. Let alone, properly maintain the old car they may have now.
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As I've been saying all along. The number one thing is that there is nowhere near enough charging station infostructure to support plugin EV's to begin with. The range is poor, even on a good day. 250 miles or 400 kilometers max range is not good when it takes a super-fast charger over an hour to recharge. And a 220-volt home charger will take over 8 hours. Then factor in extreme heat or cold, it will cut that range nearly in half while almost doubling recharge time. And has no one given any thought of the demands it will put on our already overwhelmed electrical grid if even just one twentieth of a nation would adopt an EV?
The cost of these cars is still out of reach for the average household income levels. And I'm not talking statistically either. I'm talking realistically. There are millions of people out there that can't afford to buy a brand-new car. Let alone, properly maintain the old car they may have now.
100% My thoughts as well! It is absolutely rediculous but we already know from the last how many years that the ones calling the shots making all the decisions think everyone can afford what ever they can afford or else we are bums that just do not try hard enough. The figure us "bums" just need a little push and creating dead lines and mandatory regulations they figure will be that push.
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Oh, and just to pour a little more salt on to the wound. EV batteries have a rather short life span. They are made of the same tech as your cell phone battery. After the first year, they begin to degrade. And by the 5th year, charge compacity is cut by more than 1/3rd. There is no warrantee or service plan to cover the replacement of the battery. So the vehicle owner is responsible for replacing it. And get this, more than half of the cost of a new EV today is the cost of the battery alone. Users can expect to pay $15,000 to $25,000 USD to replace a full EV battery. That's not a typo, look it up.
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Oh, and just to pour a little more salt on to the wound. EV batteries have a rather short life span. They are made of the same tech as your cell phone battery. After the first year, they begin to degrade. And by the 5th year, charge compacity is cut by more than 1/3rd. There is no warrantee or service plan to cover the replacement of the battery. So the vehicle owner is responsible for replacing it. And get this, more than half of the cost of a new EV today is the cost of the battery alone. Users can expect to pay $15,000 to $25,000 USD to replace a full EV battery. That's not a typo, look it up.
Oh heck no I can't ever pay that! Man!
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Oh heck no I can't ever pay that! Man!
We are not alone in that respect.